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Avramar - Debt Management Discovery - 2025-07-09

Metadata

  • Date: 2025-07-09
  • Company: Avramar
  • External Participants: Marianna Polykrati (Treasury), Yiria (Debt Management), Chris (Cash Management)
  • Palm Participants: Gurjit Pannu, Christian Sobkowski, Emma Sjöström
  • Type: Expert Interview
  • Domain Areas: Investments & Debt, Reporting
  • Recording: https://tldv.io/app/meetings/686e376dd654f00013e10fa1/

Summary

Context

Discovery call with Avramar, a Greek aquaculture/fish farming company, to understand their debt management needs. Avramar is an existing Palm customer for cash management; this session focused on expanding to debt management. The company has complex debt structure including bonds, loans (some from COVID era), and factoring arrangements, currently not being serviced while negotiations for a 75% haircut are ongoing.

Key Discussion Points

  • Complex debt structure: bonds, COVID loans, factoring with Greek banks
  • Unique collateral/securities: fish farms, boats, platforms, warehouses, and biomass (fish inventory) - revalued every 3-6 months
  • Syndicated loans with multiple tranches, different rates per tranche
  • Accrual calculations with floating rates (Euribor), penalties, withholding tax splits
  • Factoring with Eurobank - lack of client-level visibility is a major pain point
  • Current state: not servicing debt while negotiating restructuring, but still calculating accruals
  • Consolidated from 462 bank accounts down to 90 over 4 years

Pain Points

  • Manual Excel tracking - Complex accrual calculations done manually, prone to formula errors
  • Multiple reporting formats - Need same data sliced differently for accounting, cash flow, and FNA
  • Bank reconciliation - Banks calculate differently, hard to reconcile their figures
  • No helicopter view - Can't easily see total debt exposure across all facilities
  • Factoring visibility - No client-level breakdown from bank, can't see financing status per client
  • Securities tracking - Collateral spread across loans from merged companies, nightmare to track
  • Rate changes - Euribor changes require manual updates and splits mid-period

Feature Requests & Needs

  • Systemized debt reporting with "helicopter view" of all debt positions
  • Automated accrual calculations with floating rate handling
  • Securities/collateral tracking linked to loans
  • Multiple report outputs from same data (accounting, cash flow, FNA)
  • Factoring visibility by client (though may be bank limitation)
  • Bank guarantee tracking with maturity alerts
  • Future: hedge accounting support when they get credit facilities

Jobs & Desired Outcomes

Job: Generate accurate debt position reports for multiple stakeholders (accounting, management, shareholders)

Desired Outcomes: - Minimize the time required to transform debt data into different report formats - Reduce the frequency of formula errors in accrual calculations - Increase confidence in reconciliation with bank figures

Job: Track securities/collateral across complex loan structures

Desired Outcomes: - Minimize the effort to identify which collateral backs which loan - Reduce confusion from merged company asset pools

Job: Calculate accruals accurately with floating rates and mid-period changes

Desired Outcomes: - Minimize manual intervention when Euribor rates change - Reduce the time to split accruals across rate periods

Domain Insights

  • Accrual complexity: Even when not servicing debt, must calculate accruals monthly for accounting
  • Three reporting views needed: Accounting (accruals), Cash flow (payments), FNA (analysis)
  • Collateral types in aquaculture: Fish farms, boats, platforms, warehouses, biomass (live fish inventory)
  • Biomass as collateral: Revalued every 6 months; real estate annually
  • Greek banking context: Factoring through Eurobank, complex syndication structures
  • "Control the controllable": Philosophy of fixing current pain points rather than waiting for restructuring

Action Items

  • [ ] Palm to schedule debt + cash management demo
  • [ ] Show debt module capabilities before Athens meeting in September
  • [ ] Linda to follow up on conference dinner list

Notable Quotes

"A mistake is very easy to happen. You have your dollar sale, you have so it is not something that is... what we want to do is to normalize it and don't spend time." - Marianna Polykrati

"The concept behind is quite easy. The following up is complex." - Marianna Polykrati

"In Greece we have another saying... nothing is much permanent than the temporary." - Marianna Polykrati

Full Transcript

Date: 09/07/2025, 11:33

00:00 Gurjit Pannu: Keeping up. Yeah. Okay, cool. Sounds good. Yeah, we we have a way to track. Anytime someone's interested. So, we have a list that we're building and we'll share that with you but otherwise all good, all good. A lot to talk about today. So I think I will just kick off the call.

00:08 Gurjit Pannu: I think, first and foremost Marianna, you haven't met Christian and Emma on my team. So

00:10 Marianna Polykrati: No.

00:10 Gurjit Pannu: Christian is, is my co-founder. And so he and I started palm. So it's a great a great opportunity to actually introduce him as well. And Emma leads our product

00:17 Marianna Polykrati: Perfect.

00:19 Gurjit Pannu: team and so, I think two two goals for me is one is of course, introductions help. You see the faces behind the scenes that are also building palm and then number two,

00:28 Marianna Polykrati: Okay.

00:30 Gurjit Pannu: we'll talk about, we'll talk about that. So the way I kind of see this actually going and is gonna be, let's do a round of introduction. So everybody just knows who's who? And then there's three kind of buckets. I think we can take this

00:40 Marianna Polykrati: Perfect.

00:44 Gurjit Pannu: about debt at evermore. So, what,

00:49 Marianna Polykrati: Okay, so this is this is this is one of the things so so sorry jumping because it because for some reason, okay.

00:54 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah.

00:58 Marianna Polykrati: It depends on them if they want to stay because it's a bit difficult, their schedule. I thought we were gonna have a small demo today as well. If we're not going to discuss the structure I can do it by myself and release them if they are. Okay. You have them on a later stage number one but you should

01:09 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:15 Marianna Polykrati: ask And yeah here just give me showing yellow here she she is my my wing man in

01:21 Gurjit Pannu: Hello.

01:25 Marianna Polykrati: death. So so you're here is the person that is handling, all that management. It's her nightmare. We fixed payments and cash with Chris. Now, wouldn't want to fix this as well. So this is the next step. So so your year your year handles,

01:36 Gurjit Pannu: Perfect. Awesome.

01:41 Marianna Polykrati: accruals in the interest. And so she will be the person that I want her to give you in the demo, you know?

01:53 Gurjit Pannu: Perfect. Okay. Awesome.

01:55 Marianna Polykrati: The top and Chris. You have in the past or not, you have met Chris.

02:01 Gurjit Pannu: I don't think so. I don't think. Oh, Christmas on your TV. Yeah, could not Chris

02:03 Marianna Polykrati: Please, you know, this one.

02:05 Gurjit Pannu: on our team but Chris on your team. Yes, yes, we did.

02:06 Marianna Polykrati: Oh, this was for her former beat, I think. And I think at one point, you know, he's a former holiday, your collections. So, you know, correct so and

02:14 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah, yeah, from remote, yeah, yeah, that's right. Cool, awesome. I think, I think Marianna, the way that we'll do this is so we don't have a demo plan. The idea would be that we use this session and then when we do the demo, we'll do both debt and cash.

02:27 Gurjit Pannu: At the same time. What we want to do here is learn about

02:28 Marianna Polykrati: Platform.

02:31 Gurjit Pannu: that. I think that's where you come in around the setup right now as it is your

02:34 Marianna Polykrati: Okay.

02:35 Gurjit Pannu: are. How they're being managed in Excel because that'll

02:47 Marianna Polykrati: I know she comes my everyday. So don't worry. I have this if embedded. Okay, so

02:48 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah. Okay. That's perfect.

03:03 Marianna Polykrati: both say so perfect. See yeah, I like it.

03:09 Gurjit Pannu: Okay, so sorry. My my headset that I missed the last minute there.

03:15 Marianna Polykrati: You, okay? So it is your yeah, it is. Sometimes, you know, in in Greece we all speak quite are English, is quite well, right. Your ear feels a bit comfortable uncomfortable. And speaking, she understands perfectly. So that is one of the reasons she will be very a bit shy.

03:36 Marianna Polykrati: So don't worry, she will be. So I will be

03:32 Gurjit Pannu: Okay.

03:34 Marianna Polykrati: translating if needed but she's very good when she wants to write it, right?

03:36 Gurjit Pannu: Good. I'll I'll practice my Greek before we get to Athens in September, so yeah, okay.

03:42 Marianna Polykrati: Perfect, yes, we can do it.

03:43 Gurjit Pannu: Cool. So let's let's maybe start with the introductions Marianna. Maybe on your side it'll be good. Just so Christian and Emma under know who the team is and then we'll do our introductions, and then we'll click off that work. Cool.

03:55 Marianna Polykrati: Okay. Okay. So, what introductions do you want from us? I mean,

03:58 Gurjit Pannu: Awesome over to you. Just rules and responsibilities. I think would be would be helpful. Otherwise we'll happy to do ours.

04:09 Marianna Polykrati: projections on the Excel. And on the end of the month, she prepares all the we do the, you do the account, right? Okay. So she does the accounting energy, well, it's the only thing that treasure city. We do the accounting entries that relate to the debt, okay? Projections accruals and everything that has to do all the other like banker, consolation etc.

33:31 Marianna Polykrati: These are done through the through accounting.

07:15 Gurjit Pannu: Yep.

07:16 Marianna Polykrati: And he comes a lot of the cash flow, okay? So one of the pain points, I believe that Chris will get rid of the next day of managed to do show, as you are writing in a senior automated mode would be to have a much more automated issue with the with the cash visibility.

37:12 Marianna Polykrati: Okay?

08:02 Gurjit Pannu: Yep, yep. And I imagine there's a quite a bit of overlap between the two because you're you you kind of calculate the well I guess you're not making the payments down but you're calculating the liabilities that would be due and then Chris is making sure we have the cash to pay.

08:16 Gurjit Pannu: Those essentially, right?

08:17 Marianna Polykrati: Yes for those that we decide like factoring we do payments for the factoring interest or whatever it is needed, right? But for the other lunch yes we do

08:24 Gurjit Pannu: Okay.

08:27 Marianna Polykrati: created we we have zero at the castle that we have.

08:31 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah, because you're not. Okay, yeah, because that's the negotiation that you told me about that you guys are clean.

08:34 Marianna Polykrati: Yeah, but

08:36 Gurjit Pannu: and we can just go in into the questions.

08:52 Christian Sobkowski: and sort of, maybe one of the Key Key Milestones Before Co-founding poem was I was overseeing paypals that portfolios and lending portfolios in Europe and was guiding those through covid. and I think maybe just just that any, if you want to, at some point, get more technical, whether that is APIs or whether that's how to forecast, As well as anything security or privacy related as well as anything.

31:42 Christian Sobkowski: Net new capabilities that are important. That's for me. And then also I'll let Emma introduce yourself come in and we love having those conversations.

10:39 Emma Sjöström: I have a background across engineering and business before joining Paul my work at Eqt, that's the most recent one. So a large private equity farmers Sweden where I helped build a platform for their deal, professionals to manage all their investments across all of their funds and probably a companies I actually joined, Paul Masson engineer.

32:22 Emma Sjöström: So I helped build the first versions of the platform, which was missing so kind of pivoted into product, a year ago.

11:17 Marianna Polykrati: The Technical Guru.

11:20 Emma Sjöström: 100. Feel free to ask any, you know, any questions you have about how the inner workings of anything, but me and Christian are very much up.

11:29 Marianna Polykrati: Yes, condition will ask this if needed. I I have no idea. I try to have an idea.

11:34 Christian Sobkowski: Awesome. Don't don't hold back. Chris.

11:38 Marianna Polykrati: He comes and he tells you. So I find out something.

11:41 Emma Sjöström: Nice. Yeah.

11:42 Christian Sobkowski: Very good.

11:43 Emma Sjöström: Sounds great, cool.

11:45 Marianna Polykrati: Okay, perfect. So Gurjit, do you want to start a bit? The discussion. I mean, we yeah.

11:47 Gurjit Pannu: Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think Christian Emma, please hop in because I think this is more important for you. All to kind of get that that view. I think the my first biggest question is actually, when you talked about the different types of the bonds, indicated bonds and the loans, the ones for the covid Can you kind of give a bit of a walk through on? Why those specific debt products are selected, what drives a decisioning and what's kind of maybe a high level difference between those like, what's the purpose of just doing these specific ones? versus maybe a fixed loan or a

12:23 Marianna Polykrati: Okay, so

12:24 Gurjit Pannu: Or something else.

12:25 Marianna Polykrati: Process to to bring the company into a much more careful state, the next following years. So for up to today, we do not have a specific debt management strategy. That's why we want the platform in order to start handling that and seeing all the debt exactly what it is.

22:04 Marianna Polykrati: See how the debt as it is, put it Chicago periods have a maturities, have the accruals have securities that we have provided on these loans. Because this is another nightmare that we see, and we find intentionally with a securities, because we have many many different securities. Imagine. Now, because there were two companies that were previously separated in maths, you have a part of this for one loan apart for another loan.

36:02 Marianna Polykrati: So it is very important to be able and put them all the securities in a very nice system and have it exactly. We press the button, you know, this is this and get rid of the Excel finds etc that we have. There are many

15:41 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah, what's an example of securities?

15:46 Marianna Polykrati: We have, we have everything that has to do with it, with Fish Farm. So we have A one type is a big.

15:54 Gurjit Pannu: The warehouse is. Yeah. Yeah.

15:56 Marianna Polykrati: Building warehouse and the fish farms. They have also the boat but the boats that are above them now. See, this is technology, which I do not remember the ones that are close to the nets. So these are like boats that you can move with speed but it's it's like a construction area like a platform but it doesn't

16:16 Gurjit Pannu: Got it.

16:17 Marianna Polykrati: work. So we have biomass. So we have our inventory over the fish which is a biomaster. We say, these are also collateralized and

16:25 Gurjit Pannu: Got it. Okay. Yeah, I think that's clear. So that's like essentially this is the collateral is like the physical assets of or all the companies and that's how

16:31 Marianna Polykrati: Everything. And

16:34 Gurjit Pannu: these these bonds kind of back. Okay, I think that's

16:36 Marianna Polykrati: Yes. So this is very big. So one of the things if you semically, we could have a very good report on this. That would be also nice. Internal to say when you have the debt that you have all the tens of the debt and you have as well. Then the the security of this Okay.

00:00 :

16:53 Gurjit Pannu: And the securities are those revalued or is it like a fixed?

16:54 Marianna Polykrati: because, They are. Well, at least for the moment we have the obligation provide you to do it evaluation. Every three, six months I have I mean, for the biomass, it's every six months. I think yes, for the real estate, it is only annual basis. So, yeah, we do revaluate.

17:13 Marianna Polykrati: So this would be very interesting as it is a quite complex structure.

17:14 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah.

17:22 Marianna Polykrati: You like the idea here is laughing. It's it's her new pain point because it

17:23 Christian Sobkowski: Good.

17:27 Marianna Polykrati: doesn't have that much to do day today. She finds by herself the projects right now. She's fighting with insurance, their companies, nowhere. So she's fully is the capacity here. Okay.

17:44 Christian Sobkowski: Here. So may maybe I would love to to understand one level deeper on. What, what the current? Maybe let's start with sort of B is over, let me rephrase. So I think there's two there's two things with with that right? You have the operational angle of managing this day to day and you have a strategic angle which is I know you want to consolidate.

18:08 Christian Sobkowski: You're getting, I think you will talk about it, getting a haircut and all that kind of stuff. Let's start maybe with the operational bits. What are the? And then there's probably like some of the reporting and storage of documents and all of that kind of stuff as well when you think about the operational tasks that you have on a daily basis.

18:32 Christian Sobkowski: Right now, what are sort of the The biggest operational. time syncs for you, right now, when it comes to that,

18:45 Marianna Polykrati: It is basically, as I say, as we're not servicing that which and the next day would be the service of the dead and when the payments are and when it comes in the cash flow, as we are now understand our biggest and it's good because now, you can fix the other part, right? You can fix the important part because for

19:02 Christian Sobkowski: Yep.

19:03 Marianna Polykrati: us, it's mainly important projections. And however, everything in place, what is at the end of the daily over. Okay. What is the total exposure that we have right now? So for the time being, I would consider reporting and doing all the accounting address with the with the accountant. So this this is an

19:21 Gurjit Pannu: There's a calculating basically everything. You have your loans, you have your rates, you have your terms, you have your penalties. You consolidating all of that. Say, Okay, now, our liability is This much higher this month, and then you report that.

19:30 Marianna Polykrati: Correct. Alright, so you can have so you can have a picture of exactly where you're this dance. And let me, let me just just say, okay. Let me let me share something.

19:44 Christian Sobkowski: Amazing. Thank you.

19:52 Marianna Polykrati: Miss it. Okay.

20:14 Christian Sobkowski: Take your time.

20:15 Marianna Polykrati: Yeah, don't worry. So let me walk you through a quick what we do in general. Yeah. You look for

20:24 Christian Sobkowski: Okay.

20:25 Marianna Polykrati: Okay, so let me do this a bit. Let me see, what screen I'm sharing? Well, you should Okay, so hello sure. So this is this is so basically this is what we do, okay. Perfect. So just we prepare on a weekly, so this is pretty much what we have on a weekly basis.

21:00 Marianna Polykrati: Which we want to systemically, do you know? So, just Okay, so This is what we prepare. And, and group This is good because I think here, you can understand exactly what we want to see at the end of the day, right? So we do, we presentation with the key points that happening.

21:26 Marianna Polykrati: We have a small Treasury

21:25 Gurjit Pannu: Super.

21:27 Marianna Polykrati: dashboard that we work. And we have, you know, like a snapshot. And this is what we would like to have systemically in the day. Having a bankrates a factor in the dead positions And what we do is we have this, which is our forecasts on a weekly basis, we forecast, okay? And we have an analysis that we work and just going through just saying how we work on it and we have our cash flow.

21:51 Marianna Polykrati: So this is what we present to management on a weekly basis. Taking all the actual calculus. So let me jump at the end with a dead factor. So you can say the bank thing is that we want to have systemically all the debt coming in and to be able to have a the helicopter view of the debt that we have the bank and, you know, with the pressure of the button and not good by yourself.

22:15 Marianna Polykrati: Okay. So here as you can see, we have like our standing there. We have the capital of you, the capital of Maine total interest in the interests or something with holding splits in penalties splits, in many different things. Okay.

22:29 Christian Sobkowski: Got it. Yeah.

22:31 Marianna Polykrati: And then we have policies. We have the the drill down like the facilities that

22:31 Christian Sobkowski: In this. But so

22:37 Marianna Polykrati: we have the interest rate. It's a shop. I don't know if you can see it.

22:42 Christian Sobkowski: Yeah.

22:43 Marianna Polykrati: Can you see it better this way? The problem is, I don't see you. Okay.

22:46 Gurjit Pannu: Yep.

22:48 Marianna Polykrati: Pretty much.

22:49 Gurjit Pannu: I think this is this is fine. I think generally we see it. I think a lot of this. Yeah sorry Christian. Yeah you got a question actually?

23:01 Christian Sobkowski: yeah, this is interesting because it's basically, so Let me get this right. So what's probably taking you a lot of time is updating Because ultimately initial capital total outstanding. Those sustain fixed because right now because you're not servicing.

23:21 Marianna Polykrati: Don't say fix because you do the occurs you continue doing.

23:24 Christian Sobkowski: Ah, you do the cruels on top? Okay, got it. So, so Bae just update all this

23:27 Marianna Polykrati: Thank you, beautiful age, you take everything, this is life on a monthly base

23:30 Christian Sobkowski: numbers. Yep. Yep.

23:35 Marianna Polykrati: year. Yeah, it's fine.

23:37 Christian Sobkowski: Because even and the problem is the banks, the banks do it. Also outside the

23:38 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah, you're seeing the right.

23:43 Marianna Polykrati: counting not systemically, they do it through itself is very interesting because she tries to reconcile this with advance. So for us, if we had it a systemically, it would be much easier and this is how you want it. Now, then next day, we will also have it for the actual operational part.

24:02 Marianna Polykrati: And to be able to see to have risk management. You know, to see what is the basis? What is your exposures? Basically we have a floating, right? So we can see many different things.

24:18 Christian Sobkowski: It. Yeah.

24:20 Marianna Polykrati: Okay, and so, so for the time being it's reporting, we help us a big standardized and see a lot of things. And that the next day will be to be able to support all the operations side of the body. Have an ultra customer always coming in.

24:34 Gurjit Pannu: Yep.

24:35 Marianna Polykrati: And matching it with our payments and having exacted date of the payments and when we are to do, have it.

24:40 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah, in a way, this is the foundational piece to get it into operations, right? So you have to be able to calculate your liabilities to then settle those, and you have to be confident with those calculations. So, in a way, I think it's

24:50 Marianna Polykrati: Buckling factory you so factory. It is it is we have basically one is a company.

24:51 Gurjit Pannu: pretty interesting to be able to practice and get that part. Right before you start actually servicing the loans. At some point, I had one question on some of the stuff you just shared the factory pieces a bit interesting to me. How, how is that kind of being brought into the fold or brought into this calculation? Are you, are you using any sort of system on the factory or like a partner for that? Or is it through the banks or what's, what's kind of the factoring set up right now? And how do you Yeah.

25:20 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah.

25:26 Marianna Polykrati: It's one of the Greek punch, Google. And Factoring is the one that factors this. There is any factor, they have a platform that they present and when we give the problem with them, is, unfortunately, we don't have a drill down at a clients.

25:39 Gurjit Pannu: Okay.

25:40 Marianna Polykrati: This is a big pain for us and we'll try to see how it could solve this. I don't think that would be something that would be so why? Because they come batches

25:49 Gurjit Pannu: Uh-huh.

25:49 Marianna Polykrati: They follow up the clients in five six different batches. Say that we have our clients in France. They split France one France too and they have categorized the clients. So it's we don't have the drill down analysis but clients. So I give for Client A Or living, we give the invoices.

26:09 Marianna Polykrati: We do not know exactly at one point. It has to be a big big job that you're here, does in order to find out exactly what clients they have finance. And at the end of the day, we don't have many time. Right? Because we have the overuse that the clients are paying that comes after the maturity.

26:30 Marianna Polykrati: We have the 10% we get, discounted the 90% and we receive the 10% at the end. This is for the new financing so it's not the clear. The truth is for factory. If we could have a solution that would Us have a better visibility. Like what should be so we can check the banks if they're doing the job correctly.

26:52 Marianna Polykrati: That would be great.

26:55 Gurjit Pannu: Got it. Okay. Yeah, so if I could just summarize on my understanding of the factory aspect of it though, just overall just factoring, you're selling these invoices to the bank, they're paying they're paying you for the invoices as you

27:03 Marianna Polykrati: Correct.

27:06 Gurjit Pannu: receive payment from the customers. You're then repaying that factored loan. But the problem that you're saying you're having is that you don't have visibility in terms, in terms of, Which bucket these factor. invoices sit under at the bank, is that

27:23 Marianna Polykrati: The bucket we have, we don't know exactly per client, the analysis.

27:27 Gurjit Pannu: Okay.

27:28 Marianna Polykrati: Financially like one of these. Okay. Okay, so we have the sales analysis and what invoices, but we do not know what is finance permanent. So we do not know the status of the financing per client.

27:52 Gurjit Pannu: Mmm.

27:53 Marianna Polykrati: This is a missing picture for us.

27:56 Gurjit Pannu: the status of the financing per client and this, who would have this debate,

28:00 Marianna Polykrati: The bank, but I don't know the bank how they follow it up.

28:04 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah. Okay. Because I would imagine this thing moves, right? So every time the issue and you set up invoices to your customers, your factoring, those And then there's a movement of Hey there's the new invoices plus the repayments and that all has to be calculated. To say, This is our new balance O to the bank.

00:00 :

28:23 Marianna Polykrati: Yes, that's correct. But we don't have this analysis for client.

28:26 Gurjit Pannu: Okay, okay.

28:30 Marianna Polykrati: So if I ask an analysis, say these are the invoices that have been factored of living. Say, one million. Then you one is 100. You get the nine percent minus one that also that you have received all these mix is not clear at the end of the day regarding the financing of the plan correctly.

28:52 Marianna Polykrati: Yeah. If I just You okay? Because it's mixed with the over and your part and that's where we miss everything.

29:04 Gurjit Pannu: Got it. I think. Yeah, definitely. All these lights are flashing in my head around. We need a system for this because it does definitely seem very complicated. And Cool. I don't know. Christian Emma. Any questions front of mine for you?

29:18 Christian Sobkowski: Yeah, I do have sorry. Going back to the debt facilities and the calculations underneath. How? How complex are the accrual and interest rate calculations? And so does the the payment plans on these?

29:38 Marianna Polykrati: What do you mean? Complicated? It's not. Okay. There are many different. The

29:40 Christian Sobkowski: so,

29:42 Marianna Polykrati: problem is And the problem is that. The problem is to request to have this as it changes, right? We have a beautiful change.

29:54 Christian Sobkowski: Yeah.

29:55 Marianna Polykrati: The problem is what this you have to reconcile also prevang. You don't recognize only this indication, you have to consider bank. And usually, the problem is the consolation and matching. The data, there is a full grade them. So you have actually syndication not that you have to tranches and for shady, and for buns in each one.

30:16 Marianna Polykrati: So, you have one one long, but we have to filter six, different amounts and eaters. So this is different. So plus the overuse, the calculation, the 2.5 that you have as a penalty rate on the capital that you haven't paid. So, it's it's, it's ideally, the foundation is easy, you take, this is a calculation, but then you have complexities coming in.

30:39 Marianna Polykrati: Like you have the delay so you pay a penalty, you have a change in the urine board, you know, to find out the euro, take some time with the banks through the consolidate. So that that's the question. If systemically we can have it and then we do it usually and not do it by ourselves every time and formless, right?

30:56 Christian Sobkowski: Yep.

31:01 Marianna Polykrati: And accept. You can have a sleep in the formula, right? You can Drag out and it can be every day.

31:06 Christian Sobkowski: Very well. Yeah. Got it, okay. Very good. So in for you, the the ideal ideal demo of system would be if it basically. helped you pull these This this report that you show together more quickly, right? That's the idea, outcome right now with the debt module.

31:35 Marianna Polykrati: That is the, that is the outcome. Yes, the file are being behind is to have also

31:38 Christian Sobkowski: With.

31:41 Marianna Polykrati: the The actual fitness, just you hear. That gift of what I almost die of one cup. So thank you. And so that, I, The business of Yahoo. After Christ, that the plate. Okay. Tomorrow to the corners have totally commerce in a queen of, she then in my life is not presentation so he can still It was a little bit.

32:11 Marianna Polykrati: As the Internet. So basically we have two three different types, two three different types that we follow up as a reporting. I don't know. So, what we want to do is we want to standardize a lot this. So we will be able with the data that we have to drill it in different type of reports.

32:39 Marianna Polykrati: Okay? Like we want to have Give me a second. Excel is I think because I have it before accounting. So get a possible. Let me share this one. Just have an idea. so, I'm opening it up a bit of. Okay. So as you see like we have a we have parameters that we have a different Say that we have for one of our entities, right? We do the preparation for loans analysis.

33:16 Marianna Polykrati: So we do it on a monthly basis in order to calculate the course. So we have better loan. Numbers that we provide for accounting for the accruals we have for the cash flow different numbers. What we have parentity in order to what we pay and what we don't pay.

33:41 Marianna Polykrati: And we have them for FNA analysis. So we have three different figures that we need to. Kind of put in the system in order to have exactly what we want to have. So this is one of the things that we want to have systemically, right? So when you have like a bone loan, that is 24 million, right? And you have On a monthly basis, so it's a historical ones.

34:16 Marianna Polykrati: So so you have this, it's a bit not that easy to follow up, right? Okay, okay. So you need this approach. So you need the actual for accounting. You need the interest to be paid with holding tax or that you have to pay in the market. You have to pay and the calculations when you sleep, right? Because you split as well.

34:47 Marianna Polykrati: So at the end of the month Christian's talking about it. It's complex or not here, you know, you have to take when it's in May on the 21st, right? It's part and then you have to split it for the new and you have to take the new universe. So it's not, it is quite complex.

35:15 Marianna Polykrati: It is the, the concept behind is quite easy. The following up is complex. So this is what we want to do. Much more in a systemic way.

35:32 Christian Sobkowski: Yeah. Fully. I understand actually.

35:38 Gurjit Pannu: It's it's interesting actually this or that our team as well. I have, I have a

35:41 Marianna Polykrati: Hmm.

35:41 Gurjit Pannu: similar spreadsheet. I was using when I was doing the loans at Uber actually at the same calculations, with the floating raids, the spread the month, over month of cruel. Plus, the withholding tax,

35:52 Marianna Polykrati: Yeah.

35:52 Gurjit Pannu: Being reduced so definitely understand that complexity. They're not sure the team internally. Yeah. Words

35:56 Marianna Polykrati: Yeah, so so conceptually it's easy. But it is a lot of manual things that you do

36:03 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah.

36:03 Marianna Polykrati: and I have seen many different, spreadsheets you tailor with everything you fit, but at the end of the day, A mistake is very easy to happen. You know, you have your dollar sale, you have so it is not something that is

36:13 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah.

36:17 Marianna Polykrati: what we want to do is to normalize it and don't spend time because now your year has to transform this in a different report that has been asked by the by the shareholder, right? Another one that she doesn't every three months,

36:30 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah, and Marianna. I'm wondering also you you have the actual loan agreements or the bond agreements, right? That have all of the all of the the breakdown of the, the requirements

36:40 Marianna Polykrati: Of course. Do you upload it and they have ai calculating different things or not yet?

36:47 Gurjit Pannu: Soon soon. But I think, I think having that is also really helpful, right? Because then you have your kind of source of truth on what the calculations have to be. That's the contractual requirement. I think you could be interesting to play with. Okay. Just curious.

36:59 Marianna Polykrati: Okay, okay. Okay.

37:08 Christian Sobkowski: Awesome. Hey maybe just so reporting. Let's quickly move beyond reporting. And what are sort of within the next year. The things you are for seeing with that for other Mar

37:33 Marianna Polykrati: There is in the plan to have a 75% haircut with the ones and keep the remaining full service. So, but this is in the Steps of making right now. So I cannot tell you exactly the steps that we are. I I whatever I will tell you will not be correct.

37:57 Marianna Polykrati: So this is a plan. This is how it's supposed to go. It is a priority, but it is for you for us. It's the number one priority, but Our current shareholders with the banks and the potential order are not in a full agreement right now. So if they don't reach an agreements,

38:19 Christian Sobkowski: The complexities around either. Renegotiating that, that portfolios or around. Actually, will you start

38:21 Marianna Polykrati: If we don't have, Any from the Vatican then I don't know what will happen, we still don't have

38:24 Christian Sobkowski: servicing them? Yeah. Got it.

38:26 Marianna Polykrati: Got it. Okay? But just so right now you you don't know it's not a priority. Right now reporting is the main priority. Yes. Good. Got a foot understood. It's what I was curious about it, sort of when you think about system support, right? It's obviously

38:46 Christian Sobkowski: Priority to get, get to that agreement. And what what I'm looking for is what are the debates? That are getting complex. After the agreement. Where you would like system support for.

38:57 Marianna Polykrati: Look in Greece. We have another saying, as well we call, We say that money motor to pressure, no, which means nothing is much permanent than the temporary. So for me, we always work like though, we considered temporary. It can remain forever until everything is the rain. So, I have decided, this is one of the

39:15 Christian Sobkowski: Yeah.

39:20 Marianna Polykrati: things when I came to this company, like, I came and I said, Guys, why don't we work on it? Because the plan was, we are going to Up. We are going to move to shop. Yes, so we are still thinking of moving shop, I'm here to have two years if I was waiting for with gold and transit to shop.

39:41 Marianna Polykrati: In the next three, four years. We wouldn't have one. So that's why I'm looking to assist them. That will help me as my current status is. Forward going, I would consider Christian that we would probably try to simplify things. Okay. And have it in a very nice debt, restriction.

39:58 Marianna Polykrati: Let's put it all under one company etc. But what I want to do is I have decided that we try to get rid of our pain points as it is because I do not know how long this this could continue for six months to continue for three years until you reach, the final discussions and negotiations.

40:18 Marianna Polykrati: And remember Gurjit, we talked in the beginning, we had in the beginning here, 462 bank accounts today, we have 90 so we have a much lighter bank relationship right now and we're getting rid of many different things but it took us for years, right? That's why Chris decided, then what we did is with APIs with EUROBANK, which is

40:32 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah.

40:36 Marianna Polykrati: a core bank, currently have everything set up, we get with the APIs everything. So, We consider that we do changes but let's pick up the problems that we have and see what we can solve now.

40:48 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah, I think I think the takeaway is controlled the controllable. There's a lot of things that are out of your control and you're not going to wait around for those to settle before, making any kind of progress on the things that you can control, right?

40:58 Marianna Polykrati: So, let's try and and fix everything regarding our current debt, how it is in the reporting part for different parts, like for cash flow for accounting, for FNA. And to have at the end of the day, they say helicopter, you exactly. What is my market for my exposure of the bank and after we do this, then, Maybe six months later, it's either.

41:19 Marianna Polykrati: When we have the agreements, we will have it as I believe, it's not going to change destruction. We can have also the debt service. And so we would need to have the outcome. So what we have in the customer will change because we will be paying much more So we can cope with this in the customer model as well, right? So,

41:36 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah. Yeah. The accruals turn into cash flows basically yeah.

41:42 Marianna Polykrati: Yeah, so this is this is the way we are thinking of it.

41:45 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah. Makes sense. Cool. Any other questions on our side?

41:53 Marianna Polykrati: Crazy if you're thinking about the having any heading tools etc, we do not have kids includes at the point B because we don't have with a bunch any credit facilities or anything to open my coaching. Right? So if so you take one step at a time, you know, I know because afterwards we could have maybe something that they will be hitting 40 50% of the interest, right? And so you would need to have also the accounting and the reporting for the deliveries, you should have the market value.

42:23 Marianna Polykrati: So always would be very interesting to have the next day. So let's start with what we have, which complex, it's not that easy right to put everything, see how it works, have a banger and these report as well. Put on the market is, when it expires. I don't know if you do this management as well regarding bankarities.

42:42 Marianna Polykrati: So this would be great and get rid of my Excel files, in my debt management and the cash management, Right.

42:50 Gurjit Pannu: Awesome. That's that's our that's our ambitious goal. And I think I think there are definitely some opportunities there for us to to come back to you on some of this. Last adequate, any other questions for the team? So I think what we'll do

43:04 Emma Sjöström: What?

43:04 Gurjit Pannu: Marianna is This is super super helpful. We might come back to you with some

43:07 Marianna Polykrati: Okay.

43:08 Gurjit Pannu: follow-up questions but the way that we're gonna do this is We're taking up what you just shared. We're gonna put our heads together. Let's schedule up, I'll send you some times for a demo follow up where we'll break. We'll bring in some of this debt stuff, We'll show you the updates on the cache as well.

43:28 Gurjit Pannu: So you just have visibility. It's been a few months, I think. Since you seen the full platform, essentially, we'll do a debt and cash management demo in a few weeks.

43:30 Marianna Polykrati: Perfect.

43:30 Gurjit Pannu: Just let us put some heads together here and come up with the come up with the plan and if you have questions we'll come back to you, but I would imagine. And

43:36 Emma Sjöström: What?

43:37 Gurjit Pannu: before before we meet in Athens, we'll have something that we can show.

43:41 Marianna Polykrati: Okay, perfect, that will be great. So with the least we are, okay, by the way.

43:46 Gurjit Pannu: Sorry.

43:46 Marianna Polykrati: It's okay with a table that. Yeah.

43:48 Gurjit Pannu: With the dinner. Oh, yeah, yeah, hundred percent. I think it's been the most active channel at our company. We're just getting alerts all the time that someone signed up for interest and someone's coming in. So Linda will reach out to you shortly with with the new refresh kind of interest, listen, and we'll, but

44:05 Marianna Polykrati: And we can talk and I can tell you, put these guys, I mean the priority, you know, it's just I can tell you who I know isn't and I know the ones. Also that no shows, you know, it's always ready. Nobody comes that you there is a list.

44:19 Gurjit Pannu: Yeah, good good. Let's let's get those kind of foot to the bottom there. But cool. I think Linda will come back to either early early next week or the following week with a

44:29 Marianna Polykrati: Will you bring your finance? Did you say you are going there? Yeah.

44:33 Gurjit Pannu: We as a company are but I'm not gonna be there. Christian, Christian will be there though.

44:37 Marianna Polykrati: I'll be there. Oh, wonderful. Looking forward to that. We speaking there in you, I don't know. They said it's a stage called inspiration. I do not know why.

44:47 Christian Sobkowski: Oh fantastic. You know the topic already?

44:49 Gurjit Pannu: Desperation.

44:52 Marianna Polykrati: You know, at the topic regarding M&A, that's actually businesses. It's like I

44:55 Christian Sobkowski: Okay. I'll have fitting.

44:58 Marianna Polykrati: think

44:59 Christian Sobkowski: Very good. I'll make sure to listen

45:00 Gurjit Pannu: They put you helpful of water. Yeah, so we we booked in for the, the Hellenic conference as well as well, so we'll be there and then we'll be at Euro Finance

45:07 Marianna Polykrati: Okay.

45:09 Gurjit Pannu: as well. So fast quite often,

45:11 Marianna Polykrati: Perfect. Thanks so nice seeing you all. Okay, whatever you even will try and

45:12 Gurjit Pannu: And then we Prepare awesome. Thanks again for the team.

45:15 Emma Sjöström: like,

45:15 Christian Sobkowski: Thank you.

45:17 Marianna Polykrati: reply.

45:18 Gurjit Pannu: Perfect. Perfect. This has been great. Thank you again for the transparency and

45:18 Marianna Polykrati: Okay.

45:22 Gurjit Pannu: we're excited to show you what we come up with.

45:24 Marianna Polykrati: Perfect, thank you.

45:25 Gurjit Pannu: Awesome everyone. Yeah. Right.

45:27 Christian Sobkowski: Yep. What's great meeting you?