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IHG - Cash Forecasting & Kyriba Challenges - 2025-04-07

Metadata

  • Date: 2025-04-07
  • Company: IHG (InterContinental Hotels Group)
  • External Participants: Matthew Hook (Treasury)
  • Palm Participants: Emma Sjöström
  • Type: Expert Interview
  • Domain Areas: Cash forecasting, Cash visibility, Connectivity, Reporting
  • Recording: https://tldv.io/app/meetings/67f3ccbd8b8dd00013ef9160/

Summary

Context

Expert interview with Matthew Hook from IHG (InterContinental Hotels Group) treasury team. Discussion focused on their challenges with Kyriba's forecasting and cash positioning modules, their manual spreadsheet-based processes, and what they're looking for in cash visibility. Met at ACT conference.

Key Discussion Points

  • Kyriba forecasting module doesn't allow data import - can't pull actuals from PeopleSoft ERP
  • Manual spreadsheet process: India service center sends spreadsheets, dealer collates into master file
  • Only ~10 Treasury accounts (Bank of America) visible in Kyriba; ~50 subsidiary accounts managed manually
  • Cash position worksheets in Kyriba have limitations (single currency only, not customizable, changes disappear)
  • Short-term focus: 6-12 weeks operational forecasting, not long-term strategic planning
  • Meeting with ex-IHG person (Katie Walker) now at Kyriba to troubleshoot
  • Hotel franchise model = relatively predictable revenue (royalties, management fees)

Pain Points

  • Kyriba forecasting module can't import data - "in my understanding is that in the forecasting module in Kyriba, there's no ability to import data"
  • Manual spreadsheet process prone to errors - "sometimes the guys in India will just miss, they'll just forget to add something... even like a payroll run has been missed off"
  • No categorization of transactions - "the act of categorizing all those transactions correctly... it's not something you feel you have in place today"
  • Late-day surprises - "sometimes it'll be very late in the day and they'll suddenly realize we need to pay this"
  • Accounts going overdrawn - "we have certain accounts where we have agreements that they won't go overdrawn... sometimes that happens"
  • Kyriba reporting inflexible - "the reporting side of it is not particularly intuitive, it's not particularly flexible"
  • Module inconsistency - "one module will do one thing and you want to do that thing in another module... why have you made it work in one bit of the system and not another"
  • Hard to justify new spend - "she's very reluctant to spend any more money with Kyriba because we already paid for a fair bit of stuff that we don't use"
  • Liquidity Planning module costs extra - New module that could help, but additional cost on top of existing unused modules

Feature Requests & Needs

  • Accurate, timely visibility of cash position across all accounts
  • Short-term forecast (6-12 weeks) based on actual data
  • Automatic categorization of transactions
  • Confidence that nothing is missed (vs manual spreadsheet errors)
  • Ability to adhere to policy (prevent overdrafts, invest surplus)

Jobs & Desired Outcomes

Job: Gain accurate visibility of cash position across subsidiaries to make funding and investment decisions

Desired Outcomes: - Minimize the time spent manually collating spreadsheets from service center - Reduce the frequency of accounts going overdrawn due to missed items - Increase confidence that all expected payments are captured in the position

Job: Produce a short-term cash forecast to manage surplus cash and funding needs

Desired Outcomes: - Minimize the manual effort required to produce 6-12 week forecast - Reduce the likelihood of late-day surprises requiring urgent action - Increase the ability to proactively invest surplus or trade FX

Domain Insights

IHG Business Model: - ~6,500 hotels, but only handful actually owned by IHG - Most hotels are franchised (IHG collects royalties for brand usage) - Some hotels are managed (IHG collects management fees) - Revenue = fairly predictable fee collection - Always surplus USD (most revenue in dollars), need to fund subsidiaries in other currencies

Treasury Structure: - ~10 Treasury accounts with Bank of America (reconciled in Kyriba) - ~50 subsidiary bank accounts (managed via spreadsheets from India service center) - Other bank accounts outside Treasury's immediate concern - PeopleSoft ERP for payables/receivables - Kyriba integrated with PeopleSoft for payments and accounting

Kyriba Architecture Issues: - Forecasting module requires cash flows to be generated within Kyriba - No import capability for external data into forecasting - Cash Position Worksheets exist but poorly implemented/configured - New "Liquidity Planning" module supposedly can import, but costs extra - Different modules have different capabilities/reporting options

Action Items

  • [ ] Matthew: Meeting with Katie Walker (ex-IHG, now Kyriba) on Wednesday to troubleshoot
  • [ ] Emma: Follow up in a few weeks to hear outcome of Kyriba meeting
  • [ ] Potential demo if Kyriba path doesn't work out

Notable Quotes

"I think the reason that we struggle with getting stuff out of Kyriba is because it doesn't have the data in Kyriba in the first place." - Matthew Hook

"It's kind of see what the guys say on the day and then we'll react to that... sometimes it'll be very late in the day and they'll suddenly realize we need to pay this." - Matthew Hook

"We've had situations where even like a payroll run has been missed off the spreadsheet... stuff that happens regularly like that should never get missed really." - Matthew Hook

"In 2025, this should be working better than it does... it should be easier, it should be more accurate." - Matthew Hook

"You go to these Kyriba events and there's always a customer who's gone up on stage to talk about how amazing Kyriba is... I just think, well, I don't know which version of it you're using, it must be a different one to the one we've got." - Matthew Hook

"It's quite a hard case for her to go to the board and say we need to spend tons of thousands on a system to do this, because the system that we bought in the first place doesn't do it very well." - Matthew Hook

Full Transcript

Introduction

Date: 07/04/2025, 15:01

00:00 Matthew Hook: Yeah, I guess that's the other thing isn't it as a personal side of it as well like pension plans and whatever? And I guess you just got to hate, it doesn't. Doesn't last too long.

00:07 Emma Sjöström: 100%. Yeah, fingers crossed. I just read the EU is gonna start negotiate, nobody

00:08 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

00:13 Emma Sjöström: knows, I mean, this is the best we can hope for right now. Yeah.

00:18 Matthew Hook: It never said there, and the whole tariff thing just never seems to work because it just it just seems to turn into a A sort of trade war and it feels like nobody wins out of it. Really everyone loses. So,

00:33 Emma Sjöström: I agree.

00:34 Matthew Hook: I don't really get it, but that's, that's kind of, that's Mr. Trump all over, isn't it?

00:40 Emma Sjöström: I guess so.

00:41 Matthew Hook: That's what he wants. And

00:45 Emma Sjöström: He also shot TV. Hey what's a nice formula that I can use and also can you generate some tables for me and to sign the random tariff to all countries? Great. Thank you.

00:57 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Yeah that seems for about the level of thought that's gone into it, I think. Yeah.

01:04 Emma Sjöström: Cool. So with that in mind, let's chat about cash forecasting and and he says,

01:10 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

01:12 Emma Sjöström: and and the cash positions I remember You told me you're on curry by right now? And there were some challenges if I remember correctly with just cash visibility in general because On care about you have your actual somewhere.

01:32 Matthew Hook: And well, it may the main issue is that Cariba works on generated cash flows within within Cariba. And most of the bank accounts that we have are not reconciled in Korea

01:49 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

01:50 Matthew Hook: And only our Treasury accounts are and that he sold on him, people soft or ERP system because that's where all are payables and receivables is and etc. So, I think, the reason that we struggle with getting stuff out of creepers because it doesn't have the data in Cariba in the first place.

00:00 :

02:15 Emma Sjöström: And when you say date, you mean like actual transactional data, do you? Yeah in

02:19 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Yeah.

02:22 Emma Sjöström: data such things as well or mainly the transactional?

02:26 Matthew Hook: The transactions that the cash flows basically. Yeah so we have quite a manual.

02:29 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

02:33 Matthew Hook: system at the moment for for kind of cash positioning and cash forecasting, in the We have a service center in India.

02:45 Emma Sjöström: All right.

02:46 Matthew Hook: And they send in their own cash flows for the subsidiaries they look after to us in the UK. really to our dealer and he kind of collates those Separate spreadsheets into another spreadsheet.

03:08 Emma Sjöström: All right.

03:09 Matthew Hook: and, and basically just uses that very manual process as As the kind of current cash position to determine if we have any surplus cash that needs to be invested or if we are short in certain currencies and he will,

03:26 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

03:27 Matthew Hook: you know, he'll obviously do an FX trade or whatever. So And yeah, it's just, it's just all a very kind of manual process at the moment and light, like, anything that's manual. You know, sometimes the guys in India will just miss, they'll just forget to add something onto the spreadsheet, or they'll accidentally delete a line or something, you know, so I think,

03:51 Emma Sjöström: oh,

03:55 Matthew Hook: I don't know, we've kind of got So we've got our own Treasury accounts. with Bank of America, and

04:06 Emma Sjöström: All right.

04:07 Matthew Hook: Though. There's kind of that really small piece that's about 10 bank accounts I think. To kind of have our own Treasury cash position. And then we've got something like 50 bank accounts in various subsidiaries that we will and manage cash on behalf of And then outside of that, we've got all of the other bank accounts and which were kind of, probably not.

04:38 Matthew Hook: So concerned about the moment in terms of forecasting,

04:43 Emma Sjöström: All right. What?

04:46 Matthew Hook: And really all we're trying to do. I mean, we call it forecasting but but really it's probably like 12 week maximum that we need to look at that. Probably really only like six to eight weeks. We're not so talking about creating giant two three, four year.

05:05 Emma Sjöström: Our interesting? Yeah.

05:10 Matthew Hook: For student and although that is done but very much a group level on it on a kind of different scale. So yeah, we've just not, we've never kind of got gripped with the caribe of functionality of it. We've always struggled to, to get answers from them as to

05:36 Emma Sjöström: but like what's the reason if you have

05:37 Matthew Hook: whether you know, it's even possible in our situation to use it.

05:39 Emma Sjöström: Actuals as in transactions, in your ERP, sitting there already.

05:42 Matthew Hook: Does it make any sense to use it? I'll be better off using something else.

05:44 Emma Sjöström: What's there reason Kariba couldn't make use of those.

05:49 Matthew Hook: Mm-hmm. And because in my understanding is that in the forecast in module in Caribe, but there's no ability to import data.

05:58 Emma Sjöström: All right.

06:05 Matthew Hook: So yeah, so you you can't do it. As far as I know. You can't import data from

06:13 Emma Sjöström: Cool and cariba. Wouldn't integrate with your ERP to get that data from?

06:16 Matthew Hook: elsewhere. It needs to all of the cash flow information needs to actually be in

06:26 Emma Sjöström: Our.

06:26 Matthew Hook: cariba. And I think it's more that that particular module within Cariba doesn't have the

06:34 Emma Sjöström: Call. Okay.

06:40 Matthew Hook: ability to do that. We do it, we do Cariba and people soft are integrated and

06:45 Emma Sjöström: Okay. All right.

06:57 Matthew Hook: because they're integrated for payments. And so, most of our payments are actually. So all of the like the big payment rooms that AP supplier. Payment runs are all created in PeopleSoft and, and then

07:18 Emma Sjöström: All right.

07:27 Matthew Hook: the payment flows through kariva And similarly, we've got and a sort of back and forth for accounting. So the Treasury accounting goes back into people soft as well, from Cariba. And so, there is connectivity there. I think it's just That forecasting module doesn't allow for it. Now, they have got something relatively new called Liquidity planning module.

00:00 :

08:24 Emma Sjöström: Okay. Okay.

08:43 Matthew Hook: apparently that does, that does kind of that will pull in information from Another system. But the issue we've got there is and our group treasurer. Haley is very, very like that comes at the cost, an additional cost. And she's very reluctant spend any more money with Cariba because you know, from our point of view we're we already paid for a fair bit of stuff that we don't use and because either it's not suitable or we can't anyone show us my works or whatever the reason is so understandably, you know, she's not keen to kind of start spending even more money with them on the promise, that actually, this will be fine without really knowing that so, So where we are at the moment, is we actually we have a meeting on Wednesday this week.

08:58 Matthew Hook: With. Kariba. And because this is a very sort of, it's a bit odd, really, but there's a lady

09:00 Emma Sjöström: So, all right.

09:01 Matthew Hook: called Katie Walker. He used to work at Ihg, And she is actually my sort of predecessor, so she She was around for the actual implementation of Cariba. She then left IHD went to work for a consultancy called Actualize. Then if you heard And, and she now works for Cariba themselves.

09:11 Matthew Hook: She sort of gone for circles. So, And so he's kind of helped as a little bit because we know a very well the fact that she's ended up working at Reba. And we're kind of trying to make use of that. Now, say so we've got her coming

09:18 Emma Sjöström: Cool.

09:20 Matthew Hook: in on Wednesday. To have a look at. This is one of the things that she's looking at with us. To see if, you know, she's kind of gained any more knowledge while she's been through those various roles with a consultancy. And now with creamer to kind of help us out in a non sort of sales pitch way if, you know, I mean, because she because she has like knowledge of how we work anyway and, you know, our settle and that, you know, none of that's really changed since she left.

09:52 Matthew Hook: So, And so that's something that we're doing this week. So a kind of hoping something will come out of that.

10:01 Emma Sjöström: Diet, of course.

10:03 Matthew Hook: And it even if it's just an answer of look, this isn't like creeper is not right for us to to try and do what we're trying to do and we are going to need to look at something else. Or more. Hopefully, seen as we're paying for it already. You know, we can at least do some of what we want to do.

10:25 Matthew Hook: With increase. So that's where we are at the moment and like, say we're having that meeting this week. So we'll, we'll kind of see what comes out of that. And then, once we've done that, We'll be able to. Decide. What to do next I guess.

10:41 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, makes sense. But basically what you're trying to do is get a visibility like a cash position and like a forecast.

10:51 Matthew Hook: Yes. Yeah. The fan is your turn one. Yeah but yeah.

10:52 Emma Sjöström: well, like oh like that's the starting point that you would ideally need to

10:59 Matthew Hook: Yeah, and Creeper has this thing called cash position. Worksheets within it.

11:05 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

11:06 Matthew Hook: But again. We've struggled. I don't think he was ever settled right during implementation and then the guys that use it have kind of found a few issues with it. Like, for

11:13 Emma Sjöström: All right.

11:19 Matthew Hook: example, you can only look at and things in one currency. so you have to be there, everything to one currency, you can't sort of you know,

11:24 Emma Sjöström: oh,

11:28 Matthew Hook: show multiple

11:30 Emma Sjöström: So only functional currency, I don't know.

11:32 Matthew Hook: yeah, so that's so that's a bit a bit odd and then, I think, I mean, I can't remember all that all the details, but they've said, things like if I don't think it's very customizable like you, you can't really change anything in it, or if you do change things, sometimes they just disappear again.

11:55 Matthew Hook: And

11:57 Emma Sjöström: Fun.

11:58 Matthew Hook: it just doesn't, it doesn't feel like, It's the greatest tool in the world, to be honest. So

12:07 Emma Sjöström: Wait, we

12:07 Matthew Hook: They can that's something the case is gonna look out on Wednesday. You know,

12:11 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

12:12 Matthew Hook: maybe we're just not using it correctly, maybe it was never settle right in the first place. I don't know. Say

12:19 Emma Sjöström: Neither, maybe all. I know the problem was pretty much born out of a frustration with, for example, Curry bar, right? So I think

12:28 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

12:29 Emma Sjöström: A good year. One of our founders would would be able to have a really nice therapeutic session. No, but I'm curious to Greece is something that I find interesting that the act of categorizing, all those transactions correctly,

12:49 Matthew Hook: No.

12:50 Emma Sjöström: As that will service a base for like forecasting variance analysis, all of these sort of things. It's not something you feel, you have in place today or No. So it's, it's your seeing those 10 Treasury.

13:03 Matthew Hook: No.

13:08 Emma Sjöström: First accounts, but you're not really see able to see. The events and drivers of the accounts.

13:15 Matthew Hook: Yeah, exactly. Yeah yeah. And and again, I believe there's functionality in

13:25 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, I think they have like a map. Like us, you can add like mapping rules like

13:29 Matthew Hook: creeper around budget caves that you can use to kind of group transactions

13:30 Emma Sjöström: where you are hard, hardcode some rules basically. like if the description contains this and that and then capital it as opex or whatever like

13:41 Matthew Hook: together. Yeah.

13:44 Emma Sjöström: Oh, man. Yeah. Okay. So, but okay, so the current, how do you

13:47 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Yes.

13:53 Emma Sjöström: How do you know when to move cash today? Basically, I think it's my very

13:58 Matthew Hook: Yeah, say literally because of those spreadsheets that gets and that gets sent

14:01 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

14:03 Matthew Hook: to us by the team in India. That's

14:05 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, and you have your master file and then that and from that you kind of

14:07 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

14:10 Emma Sjöström: Project. Some, you do some sort of prediction moving forward or like, how does it

14:17 Matthew Hook: And yes. Very, very short term. I mean, at the moment we're more just kind of

14:20 Emma Sjöström: to ask it, sounds like that might be some like

14:21 Matthew Hook: going. almost day to day, probably with that stuff just Yeah, there is there is there isn't really any particular. Forecasting model in place particularly and it's kind of see what the what the guys say on the day and then will react to that. but that obviously comes with its own issues, because we have You know, we have cuts off times the payments and, and transactions, and stuff.

15:02 Matthew Hook: And some times, it'll be very late in the day and they'll suddenly realize, you

15:04 Emma Sjöström: Downsides to that, right? The that's distress of or do you guys have large cash, buffers or like, how do you deal with insecurity or like the

15:11 Matthew Hook: know, or no we need to pay this and, you know, Yeah. Well. Yeah, we do. I mean we're not we're not sure to cash by any means, so

15:29 Emma Sjöström: Course.

15:34 Matthew Hook: And in all honesty, it's not, it's generally speaking, not kind of life and death stuff but it's it's more of an annoyance there. You know we we have certain accounts where we have agreements that they won't go

15:57 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Yeah.

16:04 Matthew Hook: overdrawn for example and and sometimes that happens because of that because of

16:06 Emma Sjöström: Do you have like a concept of when you talk about internally like accuracy in four costs? What, what do you mean? Does that question make sense like What does accuracy in

16:15 Matthew Hook: that process and

16:18 Emma Sjöström: the forecast mean to you?

16:19 Matthew Hook: so it's not kind of it's not business stopping stuff I guess but it's just more feeling of, you know, In 2025, this should be working better than it does, you know, it should be easier. It should be.

16:46 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

16:53 Matthew Hook: And more accurate. It should just be better generally than what we're doing now. And I guess that accuracy in terms of, we know exactly what our position is. And we know if we've got surplus cash, You know, we need to deposit it if we're long in one currency short and another we need to trade it.

17:01 Matthew Hook: Yeah, just just stop. Really just, I suppose just having confidence that

17:02 Emma Sjöström: Gotcha.

17:03 Matthew Hook: everything has been covered. And there's none of this kind of You know, oh, I've got throughout this into the spreadsheet and I forgot to do this and And I mean we've we've had situations where even like a payroll runners been missed off. It is spreadsheet and you know stuff that happens regularly like that should never get missed really? Because it's a regular occurrence and And so you, yeah.

17:19 Matthew Hook: Just just having more confidence really in, in where we are and what we need to do us pays

17:25 Emma Sjöström: Really cool. But what would you do, if Let's say, you could turn your cash around and have it work more like as a consequence of that confidence? Would you invest the access in a different way? Or would you like managed cash differently in any way and you do today?

17:46 Matthew Hook: I don't think the methodology. We use would change, really, and it would just prevent the prevent these things like accounts, going, overdrawn, and then cash, maybe.

17:57 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

18:00 Matthew Hook: just sitting in an account where we don't want it to be because it should be on deposits somewhere or So it would it would just allow us I guess to add here to what the policy is. A bit more a bit better, probably and not have things missed. I don't think it would Change the way that that we work necessarily as in what we do with that cash.

18:27 Matthew Hook: Like, for example, we're always we always have surplus us dollars because most

18:26 Emma Sjöström: All right.

18:31 Matthew Hook: of our revenue is in dollars.

18:33 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, that's fine.

18:35 Matthew Hook: And then we have subsidiaries around the world in you know, where we have accounts in other currencies where we don't particularly earn any revenue, but those subsidiaries need funding for things like payroll. So we kind of, you know, we know we know what needs doing most of the time and it's just trying to make it a more efficient process than it is.

19:04 Matthew Hook: Now I think rather than looking at, you know, some massive fundamental change in how we do things. It's quite, I mean, it's Jesus quite it for a big business. It's quite simple business, really? You know, most of our hotels a franchise Some are managed by us. Very, very few around.

19:28 Matthew Hook: Like literally a handful of six

19:23 Emma Sjöström: oh,

19:29 Matthew Hook: and a half thousand are actually owned by us. So, Really, we're just we're just collecting fees, a lot of the time either royalties for the, for the brand usage, or we're collecting management fees. If we manage those hotels, And so it's quite a it's quite simple model. Really?

19:50 Emma Sjöström: And nice. Would you say it's fairly easy to like predict the collections or like the revenue side of things or is that challenging as well?

20:00 Matthew Hook: It's it should be fairly simple. Yeah, because

20:03 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

20:05 Matthew Hook: While there's, while there's some differences in contract, that kind of the, the fees that we charge a fairly standard across the board, it varies a bit from Brand. You know, some premium brands demand a bit more fees. Some and in managed hotels, there's different levels that they can. That they can take up.

20:29 Matthew Hook: So in some cases, we're literally do everything for it for the hotel and manage the entire thing. And sometimes we're just supplying a general manager, sometimes we're doing accounting activities for them. Just depends really, but by and large, in terms of the franchise properties, those those are generally sort of fixed.

00:00 :

20:52 Emma Sjöström: Right.

20:53 Matthew Hook: Fees the same across. Most owners. So yeah, I would have thought it should be fairly easy.

21:00 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, I think that's so interesting because we and just it, I don't want a picture. It's just like we we do use machine learning as the foundation for our account cost and typically, it's easy on the cost side of things than on the

21:10 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

21:15 Emma Sjöström: collection, like the revenue side of things because some the nature of some of our customers businesses are much more fluctuating or some Emma really like

21:22 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

21:23 Emma Sjöström: growing quite fast, so that you cannot just rely on the backward looking data that actual transactions are right? So then so we're looking at new ways in allowing users to kind of influence forecast. You know, we know our sales are

21:38 Matthew Hook: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it makes sentence like, Yeah, I didn't and it's obviously not. That's not what's happening right now. So, I think, I think people soft is fairly. Fairly sort of open to you see it seems to have fairly decent connectivity to, I mean, it's an Oracle system.

52:10 Matthew Hook: So,

21:38 Emma Sjöström: likely to Increased by 25% decay. Boom then that's in your forecast for those entities or whatever. So these type of building But then, I think it's really nice to hear about the nature of your business because in that case, the machine learning base, forecast will probably do a pretty good job and of just delivering on on where and when to to position your your cash.

22:04 Emma Sjöström: Which makes me excited. But yeah. But would you say just like, out of curiosity? Also, because we're looking internally a little bit around the connectivity and those things as well. And one of our main hypotheses right now is actually the ability to to just kind of connect into existing connectivity that many of our customers have.

22:27 Emma Sjöström: So for example, in your case, that would be your ERP. And then just Yeah, well on a daily, nightly basis. See that data into our systems? We categorize it automatically and we just run the forecast automatically. How does, how does that sound like from your perspective? And, and the way you're used to working with the systems around Treasury like, how does that? Sound to you.

22:53 Emma Sjöström: Does that sound like a good approach? Or does it? Do you see any anything about it that you would?

23:05 Matthew Hook: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it makes sentence like, Yeah, I didn't and it's obviously not. That's not what's happening right now. So, I think, I think people soft is fairly. Fairly sort of open to you see it seems to have fairly decent connectivity to, I mean, it's an Oracle system.

23:29 Matthew Hook: So,

23:30 Emma Sjöström: Okay. Yeah.

23:31 Matthew Hook: It's, it seems. Yeah, I mean, not that makes sense. I guess what you just said. It's So, would that then? Would it says your system kind of act as a bridge between? Systems. That would it would it be like a bridge between people soft and creeper or is it just entirely sacra to kariva?

23:56 Emma Sjöström: So we're still in the place where we can be quite flexible. So we have customers that use cariba and we just sit on top of Kariba in some cases and pull data out of career or like we use the date that coming from Green Bay in terms of the actuals.

00:00 :

24:09 Matthew Hook: Okay.

24:11 Emma Sjöström: but then of course we we categorize that data ourselves instead of relying on the creeper like that's one of the big pain points many of our customers have because They're badly categorized. So we, we categorize everything.

24:24 Matthew Hook: Okay.

24:25 Emma Sjöström: So but then there's also that we noticing among enterprises like the there is typically some system of record leg and Data Hub or an ERP or somewhere that we also should sit on top of. So that's that we're all. So right now, exploring and

24:39 Matthew Hook: but,

24:43 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

24:47 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

24:48 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

25:03 Matthew Hook: But yeah, no. We the the idea is that we would be able to ingest the bank statements at least and then also the API connectivity. The actuals from the system where they are customer, so that we can just kind of Sit on top or on the side of the existing, IT infrastructure.

25:03 Matthew Hook: And then the other

25:05 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

25:25 Matthew Hook: Okay.

25:27 Emma Sjöström: Right.

25:39 Matthew Hook: Right.

25:39 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

25:44 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

25:45 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

26:05 Matthew Hook: that is, of course, always the human in the loop and there's way to influence. There's way to change. There's like all of those things and that's what our interface is for.

26:07 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

26:15 Matthew Hook: Ideal ultimately, we're about the data.

26:16 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

26:19 Matthew Hook: and then, of course, so that's something we're thinking a lot about and what I like about you because you said that you don't get the visibility, like you have the actual sitting in one system,

26:20 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

26:30 Matthew Hook: Inquiry. But you can only get to 10 Treasury accounts. And that's just reminds me. I something that I keep hearing that it's this relation of like, You kind of have connectivity, you kind of have the data just either way to in a more automatic manner, makes sense of it, reducing the risk of human error and all those and yeah.

26:30 Matthew Hook: So that's that's why I thought I would really interesting to talk to you because it's like one of those Situations that I keep encountering over and over again. And just, you know,

26:31 Emma Sjöström: yeah, I think we're I don't think we're an exception by any means like when I you know, the the event that I met you are you when I gave things like that and talked to other I mean, not even just caribou uses to be fair, you talk to a lot of Treasury management system users, and everyone seems to face the same kind of problems, really

27:06 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

27:29 Emma Sjöström: And which is frustrating because you just kind of think why don't they do something about it? But I think, you know, Caribe is focus is just been on growth and and selling the product out and it you know as it is with a lot of a lot of those systems.

27:29 Emma Sjöström: So, I think they're less, they've been less interested in the kind of support side of things which and that's been our frustration really is. Just trying to get some basic help and assistance in. In it. So I'm kind of hoping that something comes out of this meeting this week.

27:29 Emma Sjöström: I think it's probably the best chance we've got, because I've already kind of having that relationship with someone. He, I ended up working there.

27:31 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

28:21 Emma Sjöström: And but I, yeah, I genuinely don't know, I don't know what the answer is gonna be, I don't know. we just have to kind of see what comes out of this and then, And then look from there, I think and so what sorry wrong question. I just thought of when you you know any talk about how your system categorizes

28:24 Matthew Hook: Yes.

28:46 Emma Sjöström: And blazes that. Is that all customizable?

28:48 Matthew Hook: Yes, Hunt. Yeah, yeah. All our customers have their own categories.

28:52 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Yeah.

28:53 Matthew Hook: So, we We utilize a bit of a mixed bag of technologies to get that accurate category for each transaction, but part of it is one of those large language models.

28:58 Emma Sjöström: Right.

29:12 Matthew Hook: Right.

29:12 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Okay.

29:25 Matthew Hook: so we use that at the heart of it but then right now what we're doing in internally is that we are actually making sure that And this is going to sound like a lot of work. It won't be, but like we'll have for each account. Will have its own sort of automatic, kind of way of categorizing, the transactions coming into it.

00:00 :

29:26 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

29:47 Matthew Hook: So, for example, if if you know, one account, hey, this is just a payroll account. you know, okay, well automatically classify those payroll if you want

29:48 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Yeah.

29:59 Matthew Hook: Or and that's adjustable. The second can be like, Hey, we know that there are these five type of categories moving through here. Okay, cool. So we will make sure that those are the five very specific categories that it make sure to place each transaction correctly within

30:00 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

30:18 Matthew Hook: Okay.

30:18 Emma Sjöström: Right.

30:26 Matthew Hook: many, you know, you can have accounts that you have no idea what's going on and

30:32 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

30:36 Matthew Hook: model can help, you get an idea. And it'll actually, it's quite, it's pretty accurate in a very accurate in the Categorization aspect, which is kind of cool and that helps you to start getting an idea. And then, you know, develop that intuition for what the hell is going on in this account.

30:36 Matthew Hook: And yeah, but

30:37 Emma Sjöström: Here just say to start work, purely off the information within the bank statement.

30:56 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

31:01 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

31:02 Matthew Hook: plus of course during our own boarding phase, we do collaborate in terms of like we want A little calm. Take like a description on the categories.

31:04 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

31:15 Matthew Hook: also of course there is that kind of contextual data the customizable aspect of it if you want that goes into, so yeah, that That would be that. And that's where we are today. But we are very, very care. A lot about getting those categories, right? Because they're the found, you know, they're very foundational for our machine.

31:15 Matthew Hook: And our variance analysis. So so that's kind of right now. We're really doubling down on that because they're all they're great but we want to make them, you know, really really good. the other track that we're currently really looking into all the cash forecasts, and how to Yeah, how can we bring the best?

31:16 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

31:59 Matthew Hook: Like what is the best cash forecast, right? That's why it's so interesting. but to

32:00 Emma Sjöström: yeah, the do you look at Quite short-term. Stuff.

32:06 Matthew Hook: We do 13 weeks.

32:11 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

32:12 Matthew Hook: That in weeks. And yeah, of course, accuracy will be greater the closer you are.

32:13 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Yeah quotes. Yeah.

32:21 Matthew Hook: Roles are quite interested in in other data sources, potentially, like if the customer has in most data or stuff like that, that they'd like to use in certain

32:25 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

32:35 Matthew Hook: cash forecast, we can do that as well, which is it's fun. Like but it's, it is, it is a complex domain for sure.

32:35 Emma Sjöström: That's as well. There's like there's a lot of other kind of businesses popping up isn't that they're all trying to do the same thing or very similar things? It seems like

32:44 Matthew Hook: Uh yeah, for sure, for sure. So it's gonna come down execution, I think a hundred percent does it best so yeah.

32:54 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Yeah. So, how long have you been around?

32:59 Matthew Hook: I, Two years I think since inception. I've been with the company again, half and that's when we started building the product. So,

33:06 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

33:16 Matthew Hook: I'm one of the three three engineers who joined initially to just build it.

33:16 Emma Sjöström: That okay.

33:23 Matthew Hook: So yeah, yeah.

33:23 Emma Sjöström: Let's stay.

33:24 Matthew Hook: It's, it's nice. I used to work at a private equity firm called Eqt before.

33:26 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

33:33 Matthew Hook: And I built like AI tooling for the deal professionals so that they would know which companies to look into. It's also a lot of like predictive

33:35 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

33:44 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

33:45 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

33:47 Matthew Hook: See how how the, learnings from the whole team just comes to getting. We have like one and one guy from Google and then we have like, Yeah, if it's a nice team but but we have respect for that. It it's a complicated domain. But, you know, That's why we're kind of positioning ourselves more as a cash management tool than a TMS because addresses, it's just like, it's it's so broad.

33:47 Matthew Hook: We more about trying to get this part, right first. And, you know, we'll, Expand from there, potentially.

33:48 Emma Sjöström: Oh, trust me.

34:19 Matthew Hook: Yeah. I'm glad you think so that's a nice nice signal for us, for sure.

34:20 Emma Sjöström: Well, so, I think it's always interesting to hear about what, you know, what companies are doing and what they're trying to do and what your folks in all and And because you're right like a TMS. Is such a, it's such a wide ranging thing. And I think, part of the part of the issue, maybe is, You know, trying to do everything.

34:24 Emma Sjöström: And not doing. Not doing any of it brilliantly like, because you're trying to cover absolutely every base. So I think the idea of focusing on one part of it and trying to be really, really good at that. is is quite appealing because I think probably You know, when they, when we first were looking to implement Cariba, there's obviously always the option of instead of having it all, encompassing TM, ash.

34:28 Emma Sjöström: He'd go, you go to one place for your payment. She goes one place for your cash management. You go to blah and and I think there was a bit of reluctance. Thanks. You kind of think, well, it just sounds more complex to have like four or five different things going on.

34:31 Emma Sjöström: But I guess I guess now, like that's just

34:30 Matthew Hook: That's a good.

35:42 Emma Sjöström: becoming more commonplace because it's so easy. Well, relatively easy to connect different systems together. Now, that You don't necessarily need to just go to one place to do everything, I think.

35:45 Matthew Hook: No, I think you're right. Shadow, same sentiment. Like I remember I read a report recently that it was pretty 50/50 among treasurers today like to go for the tool. That does it all versus? Yeah. The the best and best of breed kind of for each area.

35:58 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Yeah.

36:15 Matthew Hook: so yeah, I think that might be a trend towards Daring to go for the rest of, for sure. so,

36:17 Emma Sjöström: Because I think we're quite, you know, right in terms of payments, were were relatively happy with Cariba.

36:27 Matthew Hook: And that's great. And then in Kariba is good, a lot of stuff.

36:33 Emma Sjöström: but, Yeah, it seems work.

36:34 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

36:40 Emma Sjöström: It seems to work really well integrates well with people, soft, and

36:41 Matthew Hook: Nice.

36:46 Emma Sjöström: And we don't have many issues. Really, when you, when you consider how many payments we do, it's quite rare that we have any problems. So we're quite happy

36:47 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

36:53 Emma Sjöström: with that side of it. I think the but then the tms side of it is probably not. Not as good. And some of the reporting is not great.

36:57 Matthew Hook: Yeah. What's the report thing that you're looking to do? Sorry, I'm just curious.

37:08 Emma Sjöström: Well, I mean that's that's quite a general statement. I guess is, is just we, I think the reporting side of it is not Particularly intuitive, it's not particularly flexible. And so although

37:13 Matthew Hook: Coach.

37:28 Emma Sjöström: You know you have you do you have options to change the fields in the reporting and, and certain criteria? You're still restricted to whatever. Options. They've decided. You, you might want for that module, and every module is different. so, they say the options that you have a different in financial accounting

37:31 Matthew Hook: Okay.

37:53 Emma Sjöström: versus cash accounting versus payments versus

37:57 Matthew Hook: oh,

38:00 Emma Sjöström: oh,

38:01 Matthew Hook: I see.

38:15 Emma Sjöström: It's part of the same system, like, how can they not be? compatible, you know, or Like ones, one module will do one thing and you want to do that thing in another module. And they're like, Oh no, it doesn't work in that module. Then You know, you kind of think well why, why have you made it? Work in one bit of the system and not another like, I don't get it say Well I don't know whether the it's come from the from how they kind of develop the system, whether they started with one thing and then somebody else.

00:00 :

38:18 Matthew Hook: Could be.

38:53 Emma Sjöström: It did this bit and didn't think about how that bit and you know, I don't know. But and it's quite baffling sometimes, you know, you you sort of almost feel like you have gone into a situation where you've just Picked up different. You know, they might as well be different systems because they won't if they're not Consistent in how they perform and they won't talk to each other, you kind of thing.

38:53 Emma Sjöström: What's the point in? and just, you know, having one system, why

38:53 Matthew Hook: That's a very, very good point, honestly.

39:23 Emma Sjöström: So yeah, we have we have a few frustrations but I think this whole thing of the cash positioning and and short-term forecasting is something that our greed treasurer has kind of Been she she's been concerned about it for a while but I think he's come more more to the four recently.

39:27 Emma Sjöström: Like I think it's got the stage where she's getting quite annoyed by the fact that You know, we've had the system in for a while and we pave for these modules and stuff and we're just not making use of them because it's a really hard. kind of case for her to go to, you know, to the board and say We need to spend X, you know, tons of thousands on assistant to do this.

39:33 Emma Sjöström: Because the system that we bought in the first place, doesn't it very well and

39:25 Matthew Hook: Sculpture.

40:19 Emma Sjöström: you know, nobody really wants to kind of have to put that forward and because you you're gonna get very obvious push back of

40:20 Matthew Hook: Got.

40:28 Emma Sjöström: Got.

40:28 Matthew Hook: Got.

40:32 Emma Sjöström: and so, But you know if we get to that place then we'll have to cross that bridge when

40:33 Matthew Hook: I mean.

40:35 Emma Sjöström: I mean.

40:38 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

40:50 Emma Sjöström: And then see where we go from there, I guess.

40:52 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Is there a oh, like at IH? Like I get it. Like, we as transparent as you feel comfortable, with Remember, we're being recorded but I'm not sharing it, so you're cool. But If they're a set like Ihe is there like them. The view on AI. Is that something that's disgusting? Internally is there like some

40:54 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

41:17 Matthew Hook: How are you guys like thinking about AI in general? I think that's a really interesting topic as well. And are you like Thinking of how to are you, you know, looking to adopt yourself more to like into align with AI technologies or how to make use of AI internally or are you.

00:00 :

41:18 Emma Sjöström: I would say from the Treasury perspective. and I, obviously, I can't speak for the entire business, like,

41:38 Matthew Hook: Not yeah.

41:45 Emma Sjöström: You know, businesses huge. We we've got and whole huge IT teams that purely look after. Like, the the booking systems in the hotel and the resume, you know, all of their hotel actual hotel, infrastructure it and, you know, And what sort of stuff they're looking at? I've absolutely no idea.

41:45 Emma Sjöström: I wouldn't, I wouldn't know, but I think from a Treasury perspective in all honesty. It's not, it's not very high up on our priority list yet. You know, we're, we're obviously all aware of it, because

41:46 Matthew Hook: No, no.

42:20 Emma Sjöström: Everybody's talking about it and it's like everything you ever, you know, you go to conferences or whatever and everything everything is ai ai, that's all people talking about. We we're obviously very much aware of it, but I think we feel like the main we're in a bit of position where we haven't got the basics stuff working.

42:20 Emma Sjöström: And now maybe the answer to that is AI. I'm not sure. And But I wouldn't say where, you know it's something we're kind of championing at the moment. If you like it into speaking purely from a Treasury point and

42:21 Matthew Hook: I got you.

42:58 Emma Sjöström: businesswide, you know, I don't know what the kind of developments are that have been done and, you know, clearly we've got a website and an app and You know, I'm sure it's being looked at to kind of try and stay ahead of the

43:00 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

43:14 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

43:16 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

43:40 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

43:45 Matthew Hook: Sure. Okay.

44:16 Emma Sjöström: And Microsoft say, I think, you know, it's there, and it's gonna be there and it's gonna, you know, take over the world or whatever but, and

44:19 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Well We'll reach.

44:28 Emma Sjöström: But I wouldn't say we're having kind of regular big conversations about it as yeah.

44:29 Matthew Hook: That's fair. I think it will be like a gradual, if it's probably gonna be this gradual shift, I guess.

44:35 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

44:41 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Now, I was just curious. I think it's always fun to just hear like What organizations think about it in general as well? Because Yeah. So, I know we've gone through it already, but just to summarize super clearly. If you like had a magic wand, And you could have like three wishes come through immediately.

44:41 Matthew Hook: With regards to what we're what we've been talking to. What would those three things be? If you could just wave a magic wand now?

44:42 Emma Sjöström: Oh, what a question.

45:18 Matthew Hook: Apologies.

45:23 Emma Sjöström: I think. I think to, Just to have. It sounds really. it sounds really basic but just to have things working properly as we expected when we first implemented this system, To just to have. You know, to be able to make use of the, of the system that we've bought and that we're using to be able to make full use of it.

45:23 Emma Sjöström: And have Really good. and accurate and timely visibility of of where we are with these with this, you know, the cash from the various and You know, know have a have a short term plan off the back of that I guess.

45:26 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

46:18 Emma Sjöström: Which I don't think is like massively unrealistic. It doesn't seem like too much to ask particularly And he always baffles me a bit when we go to these kind of caribou events and they'll always be a customer somewhere. That's you know, gone up on stage to talk about how amazing creeper is that cash position and they've got wonderful visibility of all their cash and they can produce all these incredible charts and stuff and I just think well, I don't know which version of it, you'll use it, right? It must be a different one to the one.

46:18 Emma Sjöström: We've got say and but I think all businesses are different, aren't there. And I guess some people you know, I remember I remember Talking to a guy at one of these things and He was talking about all of their bank accounts that they needed to manage and it turned out they had like six bank accounts or something.

00:00 :

46:19 Matthew Hook: Okay. Well yeah.

47:17 Emma Sjöström: With two different banks. And I was just like, well, you just like

47:18 Matthew Hook: No.

47:22 Emma Sjöström: You operating in a completely different world to to what you know we're talking

47:23 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

47:27 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

47:28 Matthew Hook: Okay, now I'm not.

47:34 Emma Sjöström: And so I think, you know, maybe if maybe if you're very simple and you've only got a couple of bank accounts and You know, and it's quite easy to do the setup for those. Maybe you can get some really good visibility and I don't know, but and I don't know how much of it is down to complexity and whatever.

47:54 Emma Sjöström: That's all we're looking for, really?

47:35 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Yeah.

47:59 Emma Sjöström: Nothing over complicated.

48:01 Matthew Hook: Well, I hate to say it, but if you should ever want to, we're happy to demo and just show you what's possible. Obviously, if it's ever interesting for you guys,

48:05 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Yeah, definitely I think I think we need to see what comes out of this.

48:14 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

48:19 Emma Sjöström: We've got this week.

48:20 Matthew Hook: Yeah, I don't mean to I appreciate you. Take. This, I don't you. It's just like it sounds like a good fit, that's all.

48:21 Emma Sjöström: that's, Yeah, yeah sure. And it's definitely it's definitely worth keeping in mind that, you know, depending on What happens for the down the line. So he is, is good to connect to think and have have your name kind of in the In the mix of, I know. Did you meet birds at the at the conference?

48:26 Matthew Hook: No, didn't I think you mentioned

48:53 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, he was there. He had to leave a bit early, so So yeah, you probably missed him but he say he's our Treasury direct.

48:56 Matthew Hook: All right.

49:05 Emma Sjöström: And he's worked is she for over 20 years and most of those being in treasury like he's he's got all the kind of bank relationships and he just thought, you

49:06 Matthew Hook: Coach.

49:16 Emma Sjöström: know, he knows it inside out.

49:18 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

49:20 Emma Sjöström: And and I know that he like I'm sure he's had conversations with a couple of other, You know, businesses similar to Iran. They're doing, you know, doing some. Like I said, There's quite a few around isn't the same? I can't. He's

49:21 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

49:33 Emma Sjöström: mentioned a couple of names. I can't remember the names now, but I know. He's done that as well. So there's definitely options out there. We know that but it's just It's just what seen what we can do with what we've got first and then and then kind of take it elsewhere if we need to, I think so.

49:33 Emma Sjöström: But yeah, definitely obviously we've got each other's details now. So and it's, it's got Talk things through and know what's possible, I think. And And so yeah, we'll we'll kind of touch base in the future I guess. And

49:36 Matthew Hook: yeah, I would love to

50:14 Emma Sjöström: See, what will you be at their conference? Their big conference in May the Act

50:15 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

50:16 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

50:21 Matthew Hook: One.

50:22 Emma Sjöström: In May the honor in college.

50:24 Matthew Hook: No, be there in. I don't think we'll go to one in May

50:25 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

50:29 Matthew Hook: But yeah, I'll I'll look internally but we'll see.

50:32 Emma Sjöström: Is that because they charge you too much money to understand?

50:37 Matthew Hook: I actually don't know. I, I typically don't. Go to all the conferences, we just started. Actually this year like this.

50:41 Emma Sjöström: Okay.

50:49 Matthew Hook: past month or two with with attending conferences as a vendor, you know, like

50:51 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

50:55 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

50:56 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

51:04 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

51:05 Emma Sjöström: I've heard, I mean, I've just I've I know I've heard vendors say. It's quite expensive to have a standard but it is really well attended. You

51:20 Matthew Hook: Okay. Yeah.

51:28 Emma Sjöström: know, there's a lot you know it's the kind of main one of the year I guess pop your a finance maybe

51:32 Matthew Hook: Maybe we are going, don't quote me on this. I I feel a little starting to be

51:38 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

51:42 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

51:43 Emma Sjöström: honest.

51:44 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

51:54 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

51:56 Matthew Hook: so

51:57 Emma Sjöström: I don't think so. Yeah.

52:07 Matthew Hook: In. Yeah.

52:09 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, he may makes people are pretty. Pretty good in my experience. And generally willing to kind of help each other and, and stuff, say, when, yeah, quite nice, quite nice area to work. And I think,

52:09 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Right. But okay. I know I don't want to I don't want to like latch on teeth. Baba, but would it be okay if I reach out in the couple of weeks and just ask if anything came out of that. Because I'm interested to learn if

52:25 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

52:37 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

52:41 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Well

52:43 Matthew Hook: just not working out. And the modules are not collaborating and like how

52:45 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

52:49 Matthew Hook: How they go about fixing that because we're also not necessarily a creeper competitor. You know, we're thinking about maybe maybe we can, you know, Add

52:50 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

52:58 Matthew Hook: value, and they come and, you know, so,

53:01 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

53:02 Matthew Hook: So, it's just If that's okay, just to hear if if you guys are progressing and, and how and all of that,

53:04 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, that's absolutely fine. Yeah, yeah, no problem with that, just drop me an email and

53:14 Matthew Hook: Thank you.

53:20 Emma Sjöström: Thank you.

53:20 Matthew Hook: I mean, I can I can give no stress. The yeah would be cool to just understand.

53:25 Emma Sjöström: Yeah. Very importantly.

53:35 Matthew Hook: Cool going anywhere. Nice.

53:37 Emma Sjöström: And we're going down to Devon for a week.

53:40 Matthew Hook: Okay, well, I haven't been like what do you do?

53:42 Emma Sjöström: And it's just really nice. Part of the UK. It's got nice beaches and so it's a bit weather dependent but well, we'll see. We take the dog bear with us. And

53:47 Matthew Hook: so,

53:55 Emma Sjöström: And just like, we like to have a UK holiday every year so that we can take our dog along.

53:59 Matthew Hook: that's,

54:05 Emma Sjöström: And then we'll go abroad in the summer. Say, Looking forward to a break to be honest.

54:06 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

54:13 Emma Sjöström: I'm ready.

54:14 Matthew Hook: Me too.

54:15 Emma Sjöström: I hope you feel bad to see you. Anyway, and the cold goes away.

54:19 Matthew Hook: Yeah. Yeah so much and thank you for this it chat. It was really valuable. I really appreciate it. Thank you again. And well I'll reach out and I'm a couple of

54:21 Emma Sjöström: It was.

54:29 Matthew Hook: weeks to a month's time or some

54:35 Emma Sjöström: Yeah.

54:36 Matthew Hook: Yeah.

54:38 Emma Sjöström: Yeah, sounds good.

54:39 Matthew Hook: Coming along cook. Thank you so much.

54:40 Emma Sjöström: Okay, nice. You. Thank you.

54:43 Matthew Hook: Okay, nice.

54:46 Emma Sjöström: Bye.

54:47 Matthew Hook: Bye.